Do we exist?

danizduhman · Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: Do we exist?

This really isn't a debate, I just found it interesting.

Zeno's Paradox. I think what we see is an illiusion. Check it out for yourself.

The dichotomy paradox
"You cannot even start."
"That which is in locomotion must arrive at the half-way stage before it arrives at the goal." (Aristotle Physics VI:9, 239b10)
Suppose Homer wants to catch a stationary bus. Before he can get there, he must get halfway there. Before he can get halfway there, he must get a quarter of the way there. Before traveling a fourth, he must travel one-eighth; before an eighth, one-sixteenth; and so on.

This description requires one to travel an infinite number of finite distances, which Zeno argues would take an infinite time -- which is to say, it can never be completed. This sequence also presents a second problem in that it contains no first distance to run, for any possible first distance could be divided in half, and hence would not be first after all. Hence, the trip cannot even be begun. The paradoxical conclusion then would be that travel over any finite distance can neither be completed nor begun, and so all motion must be an illusion.
This argument is called the Dichotomy because it involves repeatedly splitting a distance into two parts. It contains some of the same elements as the Achilles and the Tortoise paradox, but with a more apparent conclusion of motionlessness. It is also known as the Race Course paradox.

The arrow paradox
"You cannot even move."
"If everything when it occupies an equal space is at rest, and if that which is in locomotion is always occupying such a space at any moment, the flying arrow is therefore motionless." (Aristotle Physics VI:9, 239b5)
Finally, in the arrow paradox, we imagine an arrow in flight. At every moment in time, the arrow is located at a specific position. If the moment is just a single instant, then the arrow does not have time to move and is at rest during that instant. Now, during the following instances, it then must also be at rest for the same reason. The arrow is always at rest and cannot move: motion is impossible.
Whereas the first two paradoxes presented divide space, this paradox starts by dividing time - and not into segments, but into points. It is also known as the fletcher's paradox.

Fine_Rabid_Dog · Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject:

Yo Dan, it sounds like you'd be down with some Taoism, mainly this geezer, Zhuang Tzu.

Check it out: http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~tdang/private/Illusion/taofantasy.html

Look out for Tzu's story of the butterfly.

As for Zeno... I can't make heard or tail of it. I'll do some reading up on it.

danizduhman · Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 1:41 pm Post subject:

I found it on wikipedia.....here's a link to it directly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno_paradox

It just basically says that using our own math pricipals, we cannot move or exist.

As for the site on Taoism? I merely glanced, but what I was looking at seemed to be quite different. I was looking at it from a mathematical standpoint.

Fine_Rabid_Dog · Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject:

Maths and philosophy are seperate entites, but Pythagorus was a philospher, so it can be combined.

Taoism is basically about how we exist inside our own mental state.